This season, ‘Hacks’ has ‘corporate greed’ in its crosshairs, in Hollywood and beyond

Even as “Hacks” has expanded its scope over the course of four sharp, hilarious seasons, the showbiz comedy remains a two-hander at heart.

Jean Smart has earned three Emmys for her portrayal of acerbic Vegas comedy legend Deborah Vance, and Hannah Einbinder has established her career bona fides (and earned three Emmy nominations) as Deborah’s not-exactly-loyal employee, 20-something comedy writer Ava Daniels.

Locked in a state of intergenerational co-dependence, Deborah and Ava fuss and fight, poke at each other’s insecurities, then reach common ground — all while one-upping each other with impossibly funny dialogue.

It’s a dynamic rich enough to have delivered “Hacks” the Emmy for comedy series in 2024.

Season 4 tweaks the formula by ratcheting up the tension, finding Deborah and Ava in a state of all-out war. Deborah has achieved a lifelong goal by becoming host of a major late-night show, and Ava has become the show’s head writer — but only by threatening to blackmail her boss.

Speaking from a West Hollywood hotel suite, the “Hacks” team — minus co-creators Lucia Aniello and Jen Statsky — agrees that Season 4 brings the simmer to a boil.

“It kind of kicked up a notch this year,” Smart says. “It got a little darker, a little more intense, a little nastier.”

“ Ava has to get in the driver’s seat a little more,” adds Einbinder. “She has a lot more on her plate, a lot more responsibility. She’s grappling with corporate influence and how much the system’s demands conflict with her own values as a writer.”

“It’s something we are always calibrating and thinking about,” says Paul W. Downs, the Emmy-winning “Hacks” co-creator who also stars as Jimmy, talent manager to both Deborah and Ava. “We always want to reset the dynamic, because part of their love language is clapping back at each other. It’s in that friction that they start to crack and evolve and their ideas start to change. If it was just a hangout show where everything was copacetic, I think people wouldn’t have the same kind of investment.”

That emotional investment is reflected in the genuine offscreen bond between Einbinder and Smart. A few days before our interview, Einbinder accompanied Smart to her son’s high school to watch him in the spring musical.

“Our closeness and comfort with each other was pretty instant,” Einbinder says. “Our chemistry, frankly, was just there from the start. And we don’t take each other for granted. I think we both know how lucky we are.”

“They say, ‘Write what you know,’” says co-showrunner Downs, flanked by Einbinder and Smart. “It’s incredibly autobiographical, particularly this season where we deal with a writers’ room and getting a show off the ground.”

(Christina House / Los Angeles Times)

“She doesn’t care about my advice anymore,” Smart quips.

“That’s so not true!” says Einbinder, with a laugh.

If the central duo of “Hacks” find themselves in a constant push-pull of cruelty and intimacy, it’s because each character sees comedy as not just an art form but an addiction.

“ I’m trying to think how I can say this in a polite way,” Smart says. “I think making people laugh is like having a sexual partner who is enjoying themselves. It’s very, you know, gratifying, and you just wanna do it again.”

“It’s true,” Downs adds. “It’s visceral. It’s physical. And I think it is really, really addictive.”

As a showbiz comedy, the HBO Max show regularly navigates the porous boundaries between art and life. Downs is both a writer-director and cast member. Einbinder does stand-up in real life — and was initially discovered through a late-night performance — even as her character writes late-night jokes for Deborah. It’s a show about a writers’ room that has its own writers’ room, and a show about contemporary Hollywood made within contemporary Hollywood.

“ I mean, they say, ‘Write what you know,’” Downs says. “It’s incredibly autobiographical, particularly this season where we deal with a writers’ room and getting a show off the ground.”

But Downs is adamant that the show is about more than Hollywood.

“ We deal with tech’s disruption of the industry, and the way that, you know, it’s not enough to make a small profit. You have to drive growth. That can sound like it’s just about show business and how networks are publicly traded conglomerates that need to make shareholders happy. But it’s also true for somebody that gets minimum wage at a fast-food restaurant. Corporate greed is the reason they can’t make a living wage.”

Jean Smart as newly minted late-night host Deborah Vance in “Hacks” Season 4.

(Jake Giles Netter / Max)

Similarly, Smart understands that Deborah is both an untouchable, spoiled diva and a profoundly relatable symbol of the challenges faced by ambitious women.

“Deborah has hung on to rejection and bitterness and anger and pain,” Smart says. “It fueled her and actually made her work harder than she might have. Now, she’s inches from getting her dream, and she’s not gonna let anything or anybody screw it up for her. And the fact that Ava doesn’t seem to understand that is kind of infuriating to her. But at the same time, she knows that Ava’s right, which is also infuriating.”

The tense (and consistently funny) dynamic that anchors “Hacks” continues to evolve, as Deborah and Ava inch toward — and then away from — personal growth.

“ Deep down, I think they both know that they are better together than they are apart,” Downs says. “But whether it’s out of fear, or vanity, or ego, they don’t always acknowledge it.”

It’s a bittersweet comic irony: Deborah and Ava have each scaled the peak of success, only to find themselves fighting the same battles.

“ Well, have you ever met an actor or a comedian who thought their career was great and perfect?” asks Smart. “No, not one. Well, maybe Meryl Streep does...”